I love having these kinds of debates, because everyone has a strong opinion, yet there’s really no way to be correct. Either side has a case.
This particular question came up because the latest All Time DVOA Rankings came out, which includes the Seahawks’ playoff run to date. With their victory over the Rams in the NFC Championship Game, the 2025 Seahawks are officially the 6th best team of all time in DVOA; the five teams ahead of us are as follows:
- 1991 Washington Redskins
- 1985 Chicago Bears
- 2007 New England Patriots
- 1989 San Francisco 49ers
- 1996 Green Bay Packers
For starters, it’ll always be wild to me that that ’91 Redskins team is the G.O.A.T. The ’85 Bears make sense. The ’07 Pats – undefeated until the Super Bowl – make sense. Even the ’89 49ers make sense, because you had to figure one of those Joe Montana teams would be on the list. The ’96 Packers? Okay, I’ll buy that for a dollar; Brett Favre, Reggie White, and so on. Then, there’s this year’s Seahawks, followed by the ’23 Ravens (Mike Macdonald as DC), ’92 Cowboys (part of the dynasty, naturally), the ’10 Pats (didn’t they also lose to the Giants in the Super Bowl?) and the ’04 Pats (also part of that initial dynasty).
Anyway, good group, right? Where do the 2013 Seahawks rank, you might ask? They’re all the way down at #15 all time. Still very good, of course! But, when you factor in how – if the 2025 Seahawks win the Super Bowl on Sunday – this team should at least crack the Top 5 and maybe even the Top 4 in all time DVOA, that’s quite a jump over the 2013 squad.
So, open and shut, right? The 2025 Seahawks beat the 2013 Seahawks. Next case!
But, does anyone actually believe that? By that, I mean, does any tried & true Seahawks fan actually believe that this 2025 team is better than the peak L.O.B. team? Let’s even say that this team kills the Patriots as bad or worse than that team killed the Broncos in XLVIII.
I gotta tell you, I think I’m with Team 2013.
Before we get into a positional breakdown, let me say this: I think the coaching staff in 2025 is better than the staff in 2013. I think Mike Macdonald is a budding football genius. I think his scheme – from a technical standpoint – is way better than the Cover 3 Whatever Pete Carroll had for the L.O.B. I think the only reason why those defenses were as dominant as they were is because they had so many Hall of Famers, All Pros, and Pro Bowlers at their disposal; but, that group could’ve made ANY scheme work! For me, the proof is in the pudding as that team aged, and as the talent was broken apart by guys leaving, and incoming players not being as good. The Cover 3 was figured out pretty much by 2015, and the right team could march the ball down the field on us at will; as evidenced by every first and second round exit from 2015 until the end of Pete Carroll’s time here.
But, if you put those L.O.B. players in this Mike Macdonald system? I mean, we might be blowing all time scoring and yardage allowed records out of the water!
I think you have to give the secondary advantage to the L.O.B. Everyone’s lazy take about Emmanwori is that he’s The Next Kam Chancellor; well, the L.O.B. had the original, who is still unmatched! They also had Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman, better than anyone in this secondary and it’s not particularly close. This doesn’t even feel like a legitimate argument.
I am also taking Bobby Wagner, K.J. Wright, and Malcolm Smith over Ernest Jones & Co. Sorry dudes, but Bobby is a Hall of Famer, K.J. is a future Ring of Honor guy, and Malcolm was the freaking Super Bowl MVP, who also came down with The Tip to get us there!
The defensive line … there’s a debate to be had. 2013 had Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Brandon Mebane, Red Bryant, Tony McDaniel, Clinton McDonald, Chris Clemons, and Bruce Irvin; the 2025 line has Leonard Williams, Jarran Reed, Byron Murphy, DeMarcus Lawrence, Uchenna Nwosu, Boye Mafe, and Derick Hall. To me, it’s kind of a wash, but if I had to pick one over the other, I would probably take 2025, just because there’s a bit more depth and more pass rushing options. Feels like a deeper, fresher rotation. But, it’s very close.
Now, let’s flip to the offense.
Give me the 2013 O-Line over the 2025 O-Line. While I like both a lot, Anthony Bradford is still much more of a liability than anyone on the 2013 line, so I don’t think there’s a lot to argue about here.
The receivers are an interesting debate. Obviously, JSN is the best out of either group. But, the 2013 team is MUCH deeper. Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, Percy Harvin (in the Super Bowl). Extend it to tight ends, 2013 had Zach Miller and Luke Willson. As much as I like Shaheed, Kupp, and Barner, I think I’m giving the edge to 2013.
The running game is no contest. Beastmode and Russell Wilson over KWIII and Charbonnet.
The most fun argument is when you get down to the quarterbacks. Russell Wilson vs. Sam Darnold. Now, again, for the sake of this argument, we have to assume the 2025 Seahawks are going to win this Super Bowl. Because if they LOSE, I’m throwing everything out the window. I’m sorry, but you just can’t be considered one of the all-time greatest teams if you don’t win a championship, especially in a year where you’re favored by so many points and it’s totally yours for the taking.
This is really tough! 2013 Russell Wilson was in his second season in the league. So, he wasn’t quite the passer he would morph into over the ensuing years. He was a 63% completion guy, for 3,357 yards, 26 TDs, 9 INTs, and a 101.2 rating. While it may feel like this is only Sam Darnold’s second full season, he’s clearly so much more of a completed product than that incarnation of Wilson. He’s at an almost 68% completion rate, for 4,048 yards, 25 TDs, 14 INTs, and a 99.2 rating. Obviously, with Wilson, you have to factor in his legs; he had 539 rushing yards on 96 attempts; Darnold had 95 yards on 35 attempts. That evens things out a bit more in the total yardage category.
My mind is having a hard time figuring out what to focus on in this debate. In a vacuum, 2013 Russell Wilson was younger, faster, and more explosive, both as a runner and as a passer. He also had the added advantage of the league not really being ready for him and his style of play. It’s hard to discount everything that’s happened since. You see Russell Wilson today and you think he looks the same. But, obviously, he’s slower, and completely ineffective. It can be hard to remember how amazing he was!
That being said, if we’re talking about a specific game between the 2013 Seahawks and the 2025 Seahawks, then you have to figure Mike Macdonald is going to have a wealth of knowledge on how to stop 2013 Russell Wilson and that Seahawks offense. But … can you really stop Marshawn Lynch? Can you really stop Russell Wilson when he’s escaping the pocket and guys like Baldwin and Tate are making plays down field? Eventually, they’re going to bust through.
This brings me to the offensive schemes and play-calling. Darrell Bevell vs. Klint Kubiak. Have to give the edge to 2025, again. And this is where I think Super Bowl LX will be very instructive. Can Kubiak – and can Sam Darnold – keep this offense humming for one more game? He’s pulling all the right strings, though. Kubiak has the plays to neutralize an aggressive front. Sam Darnold – at his best – can slice and dice the short and intermediate area (which is what you have to do to beat the 2013 Seahawks).
So, let’s talk about Sam Darnold. Here’s the thing that scares me: would the L.O.B. make him their red-headed stepchild? I can hear it now: Richard Sherman, mic’d up, just abusing Darnold for four quarters. Clowning on him. Jumping routes and knocking balls away while talking an avalanche of shit. And, even if Darnold does hit Walker on a screen pass, or Barner on a button hook, there’s K.J. and Bobby, pouncing, giving little-to-no yards after catch. There’s Cooper Kupp on a crosser, getting destroyed by Kam.
It wasn’t just talent with the L.O.B. It was intimidation. Intimidation in an era where they were starting to become hyper-aware of hits to the head and unnecessary roughness.
Given his mobility, I’m giving a slight edge to Russell Wilson. I also think – at that time – he was a little more careful with the ball and avoiding turnovers. The 2025 defense isn’t AS obsessed with avoiding deep shots down field, so it’s conceivable that Wilson could connect on a couple moon balls, or find someone wide open on a broken play.
In an Any Given Sunday sort of way, yeah, either team has a chance to win. But, if you played this as a hypothetical series of 10 games, I think the 2013 Seahawks win 7 out of 10. Even if I had to bet my life on one team in one game, give me 2013. And again, it boils down to turnovers. Darnold is much more prone to giving the ball away, especially to a team like that. I’ll take my chances riding the rollercoaster with Russ. It may be close early. Hell, the 2025 team might even be up after three quarters. But, I’ll take the 2013 Seahawks in their element: winning in the fourth quarter. This’ll also be a weird kind of 26-18 game. Great defense, probably a lot of field goals, and once again the L.O.B. comes out on top in a one-score game.